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 Post subject: Re: Twilight Imperium 3rd Learning Center
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:34 am 
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G dan Mpruel mo ikutan... cm g harus tetep di refresh rulesnya dan mpruel juga blm pernah main... :P

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 Post subject: Re: Twilight Imperium 3rd Learning Center
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 9:45 am 
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Kalo minggu ini gimana? yang punya usul tempat silahkan

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 Post subject: Re: Twilight Imperium 3rd Learning Center
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:06 pm 
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btw, ini rencana mau gelar TI3 gmn ya? dulu pas timot pertama upload material2 nya udah gw baca semua, tp ga maen2 sampe skrg udah lupa semua lagi.. :stupid:

msh blm pernah maen juga dan very2 interested...

:anyone:


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 Post subject: Re: Twilight Imperium 3rd Learning Center
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:56 am 
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iya nih kapan sesi khusus TI nya
haha yg kmrn itu kan ga jadi, ayo skrg di adain lagi..


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 Post subject: Re: Twilight Imperium 3rd Learning Center
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:44 pm 
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Gua punya beberapa pertanyaan nih. mohon para master TI3 bisa menjawab:

1. Kalo misalnya gua mo make modul Age of Empire. Bisa ga gua make semua strategy cards dari Shattered Empire?
ato make semua strategy cards yang baru kecuali bureaucracy?

1.a. kalo mosalnya boleh. trus gimana cara resolve Bureaucracy-nya kalo disuru buka objective card baru padahal klo make Age of Empire semua objective card uda kebuka.

2. menurut lo modul2 mana aja yang bikin game jadi lelet?

3. space dock ma pds termasuk unit kan. boleh ga milih keduanya pas harus ngancurin unit krn hit?

4.space dock bole ga dibawa ama carrier jalan2. kyknya ga disebutin klo ga boleh.

5. expansion yg baru nambah apa aja dan ada ga yg bikin gamenya makin cepet?

6. dirulebook dibilangnya setiap mo resolve secondary ability dari strategy card harus spend command counter. tapi bbrp card ada yg nyebut harus spend command counter, ada juga yg ga nyebut, malah nyebut resource lain. ini gmn yg bener?

c/o: spend 3 influence to get 1 command counter. -> nah, ini spend 1 command counter juga ato ngga? gw sih selama ini ngga krn kayak malah buang 3 influence percuma.


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 Post subject: Re: Twilight Imperium 3rd Learning Center
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:42 pm 
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Meski lessonnya lagi tersendat, tapi untuk Q&A aja masi bisa jawab :D.

yontory wrote:
1. Kalo misalnya gua mo make modul Age of Empire. Bisa ga gua make semua strategy cards dari Shattered Empire?
ato make semua strategy cards yang baru kecuali bureaucracy?


Good question! Gampangnya sih, kalo make AoE variant, ga bs pake Bureaucracy. Simply incompatible.

yontory wrote:
1.a. kalo mosalnya boleh. trus gimana cara resolve Bureaucracy-nya kalo disuru buka objective card baru padahal klo make Age of Empire semua objective card uda kebuka.


On the other hand, ada red tape variant, so you might want to try that.

yontory wrote:
2. menurut lo modul2 mana aja yang bikin game jadi lelet?


From base game:
- Long war: Jelas makin longer
- Age of Empire: Sama aja harusnya
- Distant Suns: Bisa longer bisa faster, karena ini nambah randomisasi
- Leaders: Harusnya ngga ngefek kalo biasa, tapi awal2 bikin longer karena mesti bolak balik ngeliat player aid/ rulebook gara2 abilitynya.
- Sabotage Runs: Jelas makin longer

From Shatered Empire:
- 7 and 8 player: obviously making longer.
- Imperial II strategy card: Ironically, this also make the game longer (but waaay better, so it's good trade off)
- Variant strategy cards: belum pernah nyoba, jadi ga bisa komen
- Artifacts: Make the game faster actually
No noticable effects: Variant objectives, Race specific tech, Shock troops, Space Mines, Wormhole Nexus, Facilities, Custodians of Mecatol Rex
Ga pernah Nyoba: New Distant Suns, Tactical retreats, Voice of the Council, Simulated Early Turns (teorinya sih ini jg mempercepat)


yontory wrote:
3. space dock ma pds termasuk unit kan. boleh ga milih keduanya pas harus ngancurin unit krn hit?


page 26 wrote:
It is important to remember that a Space Dock is tied to a specific plan-et and is not considered to be “in space” and so does not participate in Space Battle, nor can it be attacked directly by enemy ships.

page 17-18 wrote:
2) Remove Casualties
Each player must now take a number of Ground Force unit casualties equal to the number of hits scored by the opponent in step 1.


So the answer is No.


yontory wrote:
4.space dock bole ga dibawa ama carrier jalan2. kyknya ga disebutin klo ga boleh.

Lebih tepatnya Carrier cuman bisa bawa PDS, Ground, dan Fighter, ga pernah disebutin bisa bawa unit lainnya (including space dock).

yontory wrote:
5. expansion yg baru nambah apa aja dan ada ga yg bikin gamenya makin cepet?

Ini cuman teori aja, karena aku ga punya, but an educated guess:
- Preliminary Objectives: Harusnya ini bikin lebih cepet karena ngasi player more options buat dapetin vp.
- Additional Race tech: Nambah flavor, tapi rasanya ga ngefek sm time.
- Flagships: Nambah flavor, tapi rasanya ga ngefek sm time.
- Final Frontier: Nambah random.
- Mechanized unit: Nambah flavor, tapi rasanya ga ngefek sm time.
- Mercenaries: Nambah flavor, tapi rasanya ga ngefek sm time.
- Political Intrigue: Ini harusnya bikin lebih lama karena justru "mengkomplekskan" politic di game ini.
- Fall of empire: 1 vs many scenario. A different game.


yontory wrote:
6. dirulebook dibilangnya setiap mo resolve secondary ability dari strategy card harus spend command counter. tapi bbrp card ada yg nyebut harus spend command counter, ada juga yg ga nyebut, malah nyebut resource lain. ini gmn yg bener?

c/o: spend 3 influence to get 1 command counter. -> nah, ini spend 1 command counter juga ato ngga? gw sih selama ini ngga krn kayak malah buang 3 influence percuma.


Aku rasa ini 1 rule yg perlu sedikit dirubah memang wordingnya. Karena rata2 semua strategy cards pake command counter makanya ditulis di page9 itu. Tapi (1)Initiative dan (4) Logistics jelas ngga spend command counter. Agar lebih jelasnya lagi, coba liat di strategy cards yg lain, kan juga secara specific ditulis harus Spend Command Counter. Kalo si (4)Logistics juga spend command counter not only it's redundant, berarti yg laen untuk jalanin secondary abilitynya km harus spend total 2 command counter donk. :).

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 Post subject: Re: Twilight Imperium 3rd Learning Center
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:46 pm 
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Gila, ga nyangka thread ini uda nyaris 1 taon umurnya. Wakakaak secepatnya kalo lowong kuselesaiin.

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 Post subject: Re: Twilight Imperium 3rd Learning Center
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:16 am 
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terima kasih buat jawabannya. Rasa2nya buat next session gue maen uda bakal ga banyak kesalahan2. Sebenernya maen TI3 itu ga terlalu susah, cuman karena detailnya banyaaaak banget jadi lupa2 mulu dan pas main jadi salah resolve. :P

Anyway! Mengenai modul.. Gua ga gitu ngerti variant red tape-nya itu. Asumsi gw counter red tape-nya bikin sendiri (ato make beads), tapi cara make counternya sendiri gimana? ga diterangin di postnya.

Quote:
From base game:
- Long war: Jelas makin longer
- Age of Empire: Sama aja harusnya
- Distant Suns: Bisa longer bisa faster, karena ini nambah randomisasi
- Leaders: Harusnya ngga ngefek kalo biasa, tapi awal2 bikin longer karena mesti bolak balik ngeliat player aid/ rulebook gara2 abilitynya.
- Sabotage Runs: Jelas makin longer

Distant Suns kalo make varian kayaknya bikin cepet deh diawal, tapi ditengah2 game/akhir bisa bikin lambat ato bikin yg kuat makin kuat/ga ngaruh sama sekali. Soalnya pas awal2 di varian dipilihin sebelom dirandom yang event bagus2 semua. cuman 1-2 biji kalo ga salah yang jelek.

Quote:
From Shatered Empire:
- 7 and 8 player: obviously making longer.
- Imperial II strategy card: Ironically, this also make the game longer (but waaay better, so it's good trade off)
- Variant strategy cards: belum pernah nyoba, jadi ga bisa komen
- Artifacts: Make the game faster actually
No noticable effects: Variant objectives, Race specific tech, Shock troops, Space Mines, Wormhole Nexus, Facilities, Custodians of Mecatol Rex
Ga pernah Nyoba: New Distant Suns, Tactical retreats, Voice of the Council, Simulated Early Turns (teorinya sih ini jg mempercepat)

Masa sih space mine ama custodian ga ngaruh? bukannya bikin aggressive expansion lebih lama ya?
-Space mine - karena nambahin defense. butuh minimal 1 ekstra ship dari biasanya kalo nyerang system player lain.
- Mecatol Rex - karena ga bisa friendly landing, brarti kalo mau kesana harus nyiapin pasukan dulu.

It make a better game though.

Also.. gw ga gitu ngerti deh cara kerja tactical retreat dibandingin normal retreat. kayaknya tactical retreat cuman buang2 command counter doank.


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 Post subject: Re: Twilight Imperium 3rd Learning Center
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:27 pm 
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yontory wrote:
terima kasih buat jawabannya. Rasa2nya buat next session gue maen uda bakal ga banyak kesalahan2. Sebenernya maen TI3 itu ga terlalu susah, cuman karena detailnya banyaaaak banget jadi lupa2 mulu dan pas main jadi salah resolve. :P

Anyway! Mengenai modul.. Gua ga gitu ngerti variant red tape-nya itu. Asumsi gw counter red tape-nya bikin sendiri (ato make beads), tapi cara make counternya sendiri gimana? ga diterangin di postnya.


Jangan baca post yg atas, baca post paling bawah yg di link aku kasih itu. Itu penjelasannya disana. Basically:

- seperti AoE, semua objective dibuka, tapi kecuali yg pertama, semua diberi red tape/ token / apapun penggantinya.
- Player ga boleh claim objective yg ada red tapenya (jadi memberi kesan seolah yg di red-tape itu masih "face down")
- Jika player pake bureaucracy, bisa milih mana yg maw diremove red tapenya (dan boleh claim objective saat itu juga)
- Jika ada bonus tokennya, red tapenya diremove secara urut sebanyak bonus tokennya.


yontory wrote:
Distant Suns kalo make varian kayaknya bikin cepet deh diawal, tapi ditengah2 game/akhir bisa bikin lambat ato bikin yg kuat makin kuat/ga ngaruh sama sekali. Soalnya pas awal2 di varian dipilihin sebelom dirandom yang event bagus2 semua. cuman 1-2 biji kalo ga salah yang jelek.


Makanya aku bilang ga tentu, tergantung keluarnya bagaimana bisa bikin lebih cepet ato malah lebih lama :D

yontory wrote:
Masa sih space mine ama custodian ga ngaruh? bukannya bikin aggressive expansion lebih lama ya?
-Space mine - karena nambahin defense. butuh minimal 1 ekstra ship dari biasanya kalo nyerang system player lain.
- Mecatol Rex - karena ga bisa friendly landing, brarti kalo mau kesana harus nyiapin pasukan dulu.


Pengen ekspansi itu biasanya kesalahan normal para newbie. TI3 ngga perlu aggressive expansion (mungkin ada beberapa race yg perlu, but mostly not). Harusnya sudah cukup memadai dengan 2-3 system selain home system. So, ekspansi ke negara musuh biasanya terjadi karena:
- System di sekelilingmu sucks, jadi mo ga mau harus ambil punya org laen.
- Objective ada yg nyuruh nyerang tetangga
- Very lucrative system but nearly undefended.
- You're just an asshole :P.
Karena pada dasarnya battle itu waste of resources, jadi pastikan battle hanya jika bener2 perlu (karena ada vp, ato karena km butuh resourcenya). Kalo uda cukup memadai mending usahakan dapetin Mecatol Rex.

Untuk yg mecatol rex, biasanya sih better memang dari awal bawa banyak pasukan daripada friendly landing tapi esok turnnya langsung direbut lagi. Malah wasted turn tuh. Tapi I agree, ini mungkin nambah dalam hal game time, but veeery little I think.


yontory wrote:
Also.. gw ga gitu ngerti deh cara kerja tactical retreat dibandingin normal retreat. kayaknya tactical retreat cuman buang2 command counter doank.


Normal retreat hanya bisa retreat ke system yang sudah kamu aktifkan. So, in case km ngga pengen withdraw ke system yg udah diaktifin, ato ngga punya system yg uda diaktifin, bisa retreat ke system yg non aktif (tapi jadi aktif setelah itu).

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 Post subject: Re: Twilight Imperium 3rd Learning Center
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:00 pm 
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Thanks again, ser.

Next session rencananya gue bakal make modul ini:

1. Red Tape variant + new strategy cards > menurut gw lebih keren dan lebih direct benefitnya.
2. New distant suns > seems fun

dan sisanya karena bisa diintegrasi tanpa ada masalah waktu:
3. Shock troops
4. Space Mines
5. Wormhole Nexus
6. Custodians of Mecatol Rex
7. Voice of the Council
8. Simulated Early Turns > semoga bisa meng-offset waktu yg kebuang gara2 distant suns.

Oh iya, nanya lagi mengenai normal retreat. apa yang terjadi kalo ga bisa retreat krn ga ada sistem tetangga yang uda aktif?
bertempur sampe ada yang menang? karena kalo begitu, battle jadi epic sih, tapi bisa ngeselin pihak yang kalah krn dia terpaksa harus buang2 fleet. dan battle juga jadi lama donk (artinya nambah downtime krn battle)

edit: maksudnya battle = space combat. males ngapus2nya. :P


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